Herreshoff #188603es [Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler]
Particulars
Type: Sloop
Designed by: NGH
Not built, not assigned, cancelled, etc.: 1886-11
Construction: Wood
LOA: 82' (24.99m)
LWL: 69' 6" (21.18m)
Beam: 19' 2" (5.84m)
Rig: Sloop
Keel: yes
Centerboard: yes
Built for: Ziegler, William
Note: Particulars are primarily but not exclusively from the HMCo Construction Record. Supplementary information not from the Construction Record appears elsewhere in this record with a complete citation.
Model
Model number: 1232Vessels from this model:
0 built, modeled by NGH
Original text on model:
"70 footer not built 1886 Scale 1/2" " (Source: Original handwritten annotation on model. Undated.)
Note: Vessels that appear in the records as not built, a cancelled contract, a study model, or as a model sailboat are listed but not counted in the list of vessels built from a model.
Documents
Nathanael G. Herreshoff
"Nov[ember] 11th 1886.
Preliminary measurements to make Calculations of 69 1/2f[t] l.w.l. Sloop Yacht [#188603es] Model made for Mr. Ziegler.
Length O.D. [blank]. Lwl [blank]. Beam [blank]. Lwl [blank]. Depth [blank].
Scale of model 1/2" = one ft. L. Water line at 9.0.0.
[Offset table]
Fore foot 0.0.0 0.0.7 7.5.3 [?]
Tuck 69.70 0.2.5 4.0.0 [?]
Heel of stern post 64.40 0.2.8 1.0.3 [?]
Sheer at stem 0.0.0 0.25 15.6.4 [?]
Seer at 18[?] f[t] 14.05 6.6.6
Sheer at 42f[t] 12.11.2 9.10.5
Sheer at 60f[t] 12.9.9 8.10.0
Sheer at taffrail 81.60 13.2.4 0.0.0
-----
[p. 15:] Continued
Calculation of Displacement
[Offset table]
[Calculations arriving at] 2645.40 cuft displacement
2645.4 cuft [*] 65lbs [=] 132270 [+] 1587724 [=] 171951.0lbs disp[lacement] [/] 2000 [=] 85.975 tons
-----
[p. 16:] [in pencil:] 69 1/2 l.w.l. continued
Calculation of Centre of Displacement
[Data table]" (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. Handwritten (in ink and pencil) notes and tables in Design Book No. 2, p. 14-16. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum. November 11, 1886.)
"Dec[ember] 1886. Weighing Experiments of 69 1/2 LWL Model of Sloop Yacht. Designed for Mr. Ziegler but not ordered. Scale of model 1/2" to the foot.
R=24. e=13". g = 1.029. Plane of suspension 1/2" above L.w.L. as marked on model.
Estimated height of centre of w[ei]g[h]t of completed vessel. [Blank.]
Data.
Angle of incline. Gage[?] of water level. In air or water. W[ei]g[h]t A. W[ei]g[h]t B. W[ei]g[h]t C. W[ei]g[h]t . p. hp.
[Table with data at different angles of incline.]
[p. 26] Continued. ...
[p. 27] Continued. ...
[p. 28] Dec[ember] 17th [1886]. 69 1/2ft L.w.l. sloop model. Continued. ...
Estimate of Weights in construction.
Hull.
Keel plate. 3/5" x 2f x 60f. 1800 [*] 2 above zero [=] 2600 moment.
Floor plates ...
Timbers ...
Floor beams & gussets
C[enter] b[oard] box frames ...
C[enter] b[oard] box and garboard plates ...
Builge[sic] stringers ...
Stantions[sic] at stringers ...
Deck stringer ...
Carlings[sic] ...
Brackets ...
Sheer & deck plates ...
Water way angle ...
Rail stantions ...
Stem & deadwood ...
Keel sheathing ...
Double planking ...
C[enter]board & box
Deck ...
Rail & bulwarks ...
Floor & bulkheads ...
Tanks ...
Deck fittings ...
[p. 29]
Estimate of Weights in Construction
Rigging.
Mast ... 3100lbs ...
Boom ... 1700lbs ...
Bowsprit ... 1200lbs ...
Gaff ... 540lbs ...
Topmast ... 540lbs ...
Main rigging ... 795lbs ...
Topmast rigging ... 600lbs ...
Mast head work ... 250lbs ...
Blocks & running rigging ... 1000lbs ...
Sails ... 1500lbs ...
Spinnaker boom, top & yards ... 1000lbs ...
Extra sails & rigging ... 2000lbs ...
Anchors & chains ... 3050lbs ...
Equipment & water in tanks ... 4000lbs ...
-----
Hull 67710lbs
Rigging, Spars, sails & c. 1225lbs ...
Extra Sails, Anchor C. & Equip. 9050lbs ...
Extra Ballast to trim & c. 4362lbs ...
Lead ballast outside as for weighing test[?] of model 80535lbs ...
Total 173882lbs ... ." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. Handwritten (in pencil) note in Design Book No. 2, p. 25-29. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum. December 1886.)
Other Contemporary Text Source(s)
"The Herreshoff Manufacturing Co., is to build a fine sloop yacht about eighty feet in length, and to be rigged and furnished complete at the Company's Works in time to compete for the privilege of defending the America's cup, and for service at the annual international sailing contest next season." (Source: Anon. "Local Affairs." Bristol Phoenix, December 25, 1886, p. 2.)
"THE Herreshoff Mfg. Co. have now on the ways in their fine building house at Bristol another steam yacht [Clara #140p] for Mr. Charles Kellogg ...
Messrs. Herreshoff furnished a model of a yacht to Mr. William Ziegler, but it is reported that the negotiations are off. This vessel was to be 82ft. over all, 69ft. l.w.l., 19ft. 2in. beam, with 35 tons in her keel. [For more information on William Ziegler see Parkinson, History of the New York Yacht Club, p. 193.]" (Source: Anon. "A New Herreshoff Steamer." Forest and Stream, February 17, 1887, p. 75.)
"... It seems rather strange, in view of the operations now going on at Bristol, that during the years 1885, 1886 and 1887 no cup defender was built at Bristol, R. I. That the Herreshoffs did not have an opportunity to build is not so, for in 1885 and prior to the building of the Puritan, a committee of Boston yachtsmen called on the firm for a design for a cup defender. Their request was not acceded to wholly, for, while the firm was quite willing to design a cup defender, it was under the proviso that the Herreshoffs should build the boat. This qualification was quite unsatisfactory to the Bostonians, who, though quite willing to pay a goodly sum for the design, wanted the privilege of going into the open market to have her built. As the parties never agreed no design was made, consequently no cup defender was built by the Herreshoffs. ... If the Herreshoffs did not build a cup defender in 1887, to meet the Thistle, it again was not because they were not asked. During a visit to New York, in the fall of 1886, I called on Mr. William Ziegler, a prominent merchant, and also a leading member of the Atlantic Yacht Club. When I met Mr. Ziegler in his office, he told me that he hoped a 70-footer would come over, as in that case, he would build a yacht and that he was then negotiating with the Herreshoffs to construct one. Those who follow yachting closely will remember how the Scotchmen tried hard to get a 70-footer mutually agreed on. ..." (Source: McVey, A. G. "Are World Famous. The Herreshoffs and Their Speedy Boats. Review of the Work of the Noted Builders." Boston Herald, ca. July 1895, no page (undated newspaper article from a yachting scrapbook compiled by A. S. Thayer, Claas van der Linde collection).
Archival Documents
"[Item Description:] Penciled side-by-side half-sections with displacement curve of an unidentified yacht with very slack bilges and flaring topsides titled '69 1/2f l.w.l.'. (Note: The waterline length suggests this to be #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler designed in November 1886, but that design has sections with almost vertical topsides whereas this design has topsides with a lot of flare.) On verso dimensioned sketch of what appears to be a steam-driven fire engine which may be related to HMCo's building a new coil boiler and making other repairs to the town of Bristol's No. 1 Fire Engine 'King Philip'. See 'Report of proceedings of the Committee appointed by the Town to examine the condition of the Steam Fire Engine ... After a careful examination of the Steamer, we found what appeared to be a leak in the water-leg or bottom of the boiler, also the blow-off cocks leak about the threads where they screw into the boiler. We do not think the boiler is safe to run. ... Resolved, That the mater of repairs on the Steam Fire Engine be entrusted to the Board of Engineers, with full power, but at an expense not to exceed the sum of $500.' (Source: Anon. 'Local Notes.' Bristol Phoenix, April 17, 1880, p. 2.) and '[King Phlip] Steam Fire Engine No. 1, was taken to the Herreshoff Manufacturing Co.'s machine shop of the 16th inst., to receive a new patent safety boiler and otther needed repairs.' (Source: Anon. 'Local Notes.' Bristol Phoenix, April 24, 1880, p. 2.). See also NGH note in experiments booklet titled in ink on cover 'H.M. Co. Experiments. 1880 - 1881': 'Oct[ober] 20th [18]80. At Fire Engine 'King Phillip'. Trial on steam boat wharf. 5lbs steam in 2 min. 40lbs steam in 4 min. Stream over sloop mast in 6 min. Held steam easily at 100lbs and water pressure [blank] lbs. Played horizontally 180f'." (Source: Herreshoff, N. G. (creator). Side-by-side Half-Sections and Displacement Curves. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Acc. 2004.0001.0592. WRDT08, Folder 45. No date (1882-04 ??).)
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"[Item Transcription:] Handwritten (in ink and pencil) design book. Untitled [this is Design Book No. 2]. Relevant contents:
§22: #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler Model 1232 Prel. measurements to make calculations of 69 1/2ft l.w.l. Sloop Yacht's model made for Mr. Ziegler. Scale of model 1:24 (1886-11-11)
§23: #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler Model 1232 Calculation of displacement 2645.40cuft = 171951lbs = 85.975tons
§24: #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler Model 1232 Calculation of center of displacement
§33: #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler Model 1232 'Weighing experiments of 69 1/2ft LWL model of sloop yacht. Designed for Mr. Ziegler but not ordered. Scale of model 1/2" to the foot.' (1886-12)
§35: #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler Model 1232 Weighing calculations resulting in lead ballast displ. of 80535lbs '[With note:] Reweighed May 21 [18]87 as in red…'
§36: #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler Model 1232 Detailed est. weights table, C.G.s., moments resulting in total displ. of 173882lbs incl. 80535lbs as per model weighing test (2 p.) (1886-12-17)." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Design Book No 2. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item DsBk2. Model Room, Folder [no #]. 1883 (spring) to 1895-04-26.)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled specifications and scantlings titled 'Mem[orandum] of dimentions[sic, i.e. dimensions] of material for 1 70ft w.l.w. yacht' specifying keel plate, garboard, floorplates, floor beams (bulb angles), bilge stringers (bulb angles), frames (bulb angles) deck beams, sheer strake, deck stringer, chain plates, straps, mast partner, bowsprit bitts, rail stantions, riveting, painting, ballast (lead, outside), planking (two layers of yellow pine 1 1/8in thick), deck (white pine 2 1/8in thick), plank sheer, bulwarks, rail, centreboard, rudder, centerboard box, fastenings, 'all material to be of best quality and well seasoned, painted with two coats paint and well smoothed down, all deck work to be bright, bottom to have anti-fouling paint', watertanks, water closets (Sands), anchors, windlass, 'Rig to be complete for racing purposes of American cutter style (i.e. standing bowsprit, laced foot to sail & c.), standing rigging of galvanized steel, sails by Sawyer or other most approved maker'. The dimensions are identical with those of the midship plan titled 'Midship section of 69 1/2 l.w.l. Sloop yacht' which is believed to be for #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler which was designed in November 1886." (Source: Herreshoff, N. G. Correspondence (specifications) to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE05_01260. Folder [no #]. No date (1886-11 ?).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled construction midship section of an unidentified composite-built centerboard yacht. Titled 'Midship section of 69 1/2 l.w.l. Sloop yacht'. Scantlings show 'Planking 1 1/8in and 1 1/8in yellow pine' and 'Frames 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 5/16 angle' and 'Iron sheer streak 18in x 3/16[in]' and 'Deck 2 1/8 x 2 1/8 white pine' and a note shows 'about 40 tons lead'. There seem to be additional sections overlaid for comparison labeled '66.72' and '83.16 cb[?]'. The 69 1/2ft LWL suggests this to be for #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler which was designed in November 1886." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Penciled Sketch. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Acc. 2004.0001.0495. WRDT08, Folder 39, formerly MRDE10. No date (1886-11 ??).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled sailplan of an unidentified clipper-bowed centerboard gaff sloop titled '69ft 7in lwl [#188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler]'. With calculations arriving at a total sail area of 5144sq ft (without topsail) or 5883sqft (with topsail. With note 'Measurement sail area 711sqft. Sailing length 74.5ft'. Compare with 2004.0001.0504 which shows the same boat without the added-on clipper bow. Undated, probably November or December 1886." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Penciled Sailplan. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Acc. 2004.0001.0503. WRDT04, Folder 41, formerly MRDE10. No date (1886).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled general arrangement plan and inboard profile of an unidentified plumb-bowed centerboard gaff sloop titled '69 1/2 lwl [#188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler]'. Compare with 2004.0001.0503 which shows the same boat with an added on clipper bow. Overlaying Model 1232 shows a perfect match with the exception of the model being slightly higher and having a longer stern. Undated, probably November or December 1886." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Penciled General Arrangement Plan. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Acc. 2004.0001.0504. WRDT04, Folder 41, formerly MRDE10. No date (1886).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled table comparing 'Length', '[symbol]', 'Disp[lacement] 2000' [i.e. short tons], 'Estimate of Cost' and 'Per D' [i.e. Cost per Displacement in Short Tons] for seven different designs: '69 1/2ft [probably #188603es Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler]', '26 1/2[ft] PELICAN [#408s]', '29 1/2[ft #409s GANNET]', '29 1/2[ft] CLARA [#402s]', '23[ft] IRIS [#406s]', '45[ft #411s GLORIANA ???]', and '45[ft #414s WASP ?]'. (Note that cost estimates differ from those in the Construction Record.)" (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Cost Estimate. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE05_01730. Folder [no #]. No date (1891 ?).)
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Note: This list of archival documents contains in an unedited form any and all which mention #188603es [Unbuilt 69 1/2ft LWL Sloop for William Ziegler] even if just in a cursory way. Permission to digitize, transcribe and display is gratefully acknowledged.
Supplement
Research Note(s)
"This 69 1/2ft LWL sloop was designed for William Ziegler of New York and might have defended the America's Cup had the parties been able to agree on a match with 70ft LWL sloops rather than the then customary 85ft LWL yachts." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. April 7, 2024.)
Note: Research notes contain information about a vessel that is often random and unedited but has been deemed useful for future research.
Herreshoff Catalogue Raisonné.
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